MG Singh wrote:

vijay wrote:

A Hindu RAW officer is reported to have defected to USA after selling secrets. So should Hindus be  banned from joining RAW and SPG. Some persons will go to any length to satisfy their minority phobia. Are'nt there better topics for discussion

 

We  are discussing an important issue and not something frivolous. One man defecting is not the issue , it concerns policy. I am asking is this policy correct  of not having minorities in RAW and SPG. Remember teh army is also 99% Hindu/ Sikh and no Muslim regiment though many times a proposal was put. We cant run away. I have served with Muslims under my command as Commanding officer and they are fine people. Try to raise the discussion to  a higher level. in any case I have just raised a discussion point and will not participate further. 

 

It is indeed an importanr issue, a community that represents itself everywhere - business, films, politics and all other careers seems to shy away when it comes to serving in the armed forces.What could be the reason, I wonder ?

@MGSingh is raising the issue why Muslims are  not there in RAW and SPG while @Usha feels Muslims are shying away from joining the army. I am not in a position to comment on the RAW/ SPG not having Muslims as it has to be authenticated by competent agency. However I can vouch that Muslims are joining the army and there are  many who have reached high command posts esp in Army and Air Force. Whenever there is a recruitment drive in J&K large number of Muslims join the army as is the case in Bihar and UP also. It was the British who formed caste or region based regiments to attract recruits and make them feel familiar. Independent India has continued with this practice but no new such regiment has been formed. However anyone from other caste/region can be posted in any regiment and there is no issue on this. So it is not right to conclude that Muslims are shying away from the army. The reason I gave the example of a HIndu officcer defecting to USA(it is true) was to show that one person does not represent the whole community. So a handful of Muslims behaving erratically cannot be said to represent the entire community.

@MGSingh  having started the topic must continue participating in it. Now that he is not in the army he has to get used to his "orders" not being followed and yet the show must go on. I have nothing personal against him. He has brought a new dimension into the forum discussions and sometimes it does get more spicy. But that is what debates are all about. Listen to all viewpoints. In this I admire @ Rambabu. MGSingh come back on your own topic.

@ Vijay. I totally agree with you. It is a discussion forum where members exchange views. In this process there may be differences in the opinions of the forum. They should be taken in to our stride.

vijay wrote:

@MGSingh is raising the issue why Muslims are  not there in RAW and SPG while @Usha feels Muslims are shying away from joining the army. I am not in a position to comment on the RAW/ SPG not having Muslims as it has to be authenticated by competent agency. However I can vouch that Muslims are joining the army and there are  many who have reached high command posts esp in Army and Air Force. Whenever there is a recruitment drive in J&K large number of Muslims join the army as is the case in Bihar and UP also. It was the British who formed caste or region based regiments to attract recruits and make them feel familiar. Independent India has continued with this practice but no new such regiment has been formed. However anyone from other caste/region can be posted in any regiment and there is no issue on this. So it is not right to conclude that Muslims are shying away from the army. The reason I gave the example of a HIndu officcer defecting to USA(it is true) was to show that one person does not represent the whole community. So a handful of Muslims behaving erratically cannot be said to represent the entire community.

@MGSingh  having started the topic must continue participating in it. Now that he is not in the army he has to get used to his "orders" not being followed and yet the show must go on. I have nothing personal against him. He has brought a new dimension into the forum discussions and sometimes it does get more spicy. But that is what debates are all about. Listen to all viewpoints. In this I admire @ Rambabu. MGSingh come back on your own topic.

Hi ! I fully agree and have nothing in my heart.   The discussion can carry on and it stimulates the mind

MG Singh wrote:

vijay wrote:

@MGSingh is raising the issue why Muslims are  not there in RAW and SPG while @Usha feels Muslims are shying away from joining the army. I am not in a position to comment on the RAW/ SPG not having Muslims as it has to be authenticated by competent agency. However I can vouch that Muslims are joining the army and there are  many who have reached high command posts esp in Army and Air Force. Whenever there is a recruitment drive in J&K large number of Muslims join the army as is the case in Bihar and UP also. It was the British who formed caste or region based regiments to attract recruits and make them feel familiar. Independent India has continued with this practice but no new such regiment has been formed. However anyone from other caste/region can be posted in any regiment and there is no issue on this. So it is not right to conclude that Muslims are shying away from the army. The reason I gave the example of a HIndu officcer defecting to USA(it is true) was to show that one person does not represent the whole community. So a handful of Muslims behaving erratically cannot be said to represent the entire community.

@MGSingh  having started the topic must continue participating in it. Now that he is not in the army he has to get used to his "orders" not being followed and yet the show must go on. I have nothing personal against him. He has brought a new dimension into the forum discussions and sometimes it does get more spicy. But that is what debates are all about. Listen to all viewpoints. In this I admire @ Rambabu. MGSingh come back on your own topic.

Hi ! I fully agree and have nothing in my heart.   The discussion can carry on and it stimulates the mind

 

I hail your spirit. I'm glad you are here. And I'm sure you continue your presence with your lively Posts..

usha manohar wrote:

MG Singh wrote:

vijay wrote:

A Hindu RAW officer is reported to have defected to USA after selling secrets. So should Hindus be  banned from joining RAW and SPG. Some persons will go to any length to satisfy their minority phobia. Are'nt there better topics for discussion

 

We  are discussing an important issue and not something frivolous. One man defecting is not the issue , it concerns policy. I am asking is this policy correct  of not having minorities in RAW and SPG. Remember teh army is also 99% Hindu/ Sikh and no Muslim regiment though many times a proposal was put. We cant run away. I have served with Muslims under my command as Commanding officer and they are fine people. Try to raise the discussion to  a higher level. in any case I have just raised a discussion point and will not participate further. 

 

It is indeed an importanr issue, a community that represents itself everywhere - business, films, politics and all other careers seems to shy away when it comes to serving in the armed forces.What could be the reason, I wonder ?

 

You are right. I was recruiting officer for a ground tenure and I found that only 1-2% Muslim  candidates turned up for selection for IAF.  For every 100 candidates only 1 to 2 were Muslim.I was always surprised at the poor turn out of Muslims for recruitment That is the reason that representation of Muslim in Indian Air Force is just 1%.

 

Getting into the army is much tougher for Muslims as the Infantry regiments are all caste based ( Higher castes) and no Muslim can join them. They can only join the arms and composite regiments

 The fact is that all the Muslim regiments were transferred to the Pakistan army in 1947  Thus the Baluch, Punjab Muslim  Pakhtoon  and Jat Muslim  regiments went to Pakistan. No plans were made to start any Indian Muslim regiment.  A proposal was made  I think by Abdul Kalam Azad but General Cariappa  the army chief put his put down and Nehru agreed.  The main fighting force of any army is the infantry and as per the theory of warfare   teh infantry soldier is the most important element as he " holds the ground". In India it is a higher caste infantry only.

MG Singh wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

MG Singh wrote:

vijay wrote:

A Hindu RAW officer is reported to have defected to USA after selling secrets. So should Hindus be  banned from joining RAW and SPG. Some persons will go to any length to satisfy their minority phobia. Are'nt there better topics for discussion

 

We  are discussing an important issue and not something frivolous. One man defecting is not the issue , it concerns policy. I am asking is this policy correct  of not having minorities in RAW and SPG. Remember teh army is also 99% Hindu/ Sikh and no Muslim regiment though many times a proposal was put. We cant run away. I have served with Muslims under my command as Commanding officer and they are fine people. Try to raise the discussion to  a higher level. in any case I have just raised a discussion point and will not participate further. 

 

It is indeed an importanr issue, a community that represents itself everywhere - business, films, politics and all other careers seems to shy away when it comes to serving in the armed forces.What could be the reason, I wonder ?

 

You are right. I was recruiting officer for a ground tenure and I found that only 1-2% Muslim  candidates turned up for selection for IAF.  For every 100 candidates only 1 to 2 were Muslim.I was always surprised at the poor turn out of Muslims for recruitment That is the reason that representation of Muslim in Indian Air Force is just 1%.

 

Getting into the army is much tougher for Muslims as the Infantry regiments are all caste based ( Higher castes) and no Muslim can join them. They can only join the arms and composite regiments

 

I was not aware of that fact, seems a bit unfair to them... In my city there are a few muslims posted at the Siachen border, not sure in what capacity.One of them was killed recently in firing from across the border ! In a way it silenced the many of their leaders in that region who were openly inciting the masses and showing support for Pakistan ..

Muslims can be loyal soldiers. Please remember that the army of the last Hindu King of Delhi Samrat Vikramaditya Hemu had a full complement of Afghan Muslims soldiers who saw him win 22 battles against the Mughals on the trot, till he was defeated at Panipat by Akbar by chance. But perhaps that analogy may not be applicable now as the powers that be  are allowing only token representation in army.  But it  is also a fact that most Muslims do not want to serve in indian armed forces. I have given my experience above as a recruiting officer.