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  • Re: Group Discussion Contest 19th July to 26th July 2011

    by » 8 years ago


    No doubt it's something which the concerned ministry has a lot to answer for! One question here if that failure is to be attributed to the very poor quality of seeds or to this very class of seeds!

    Getting back to our topic about the influences of advertisement on our choices. It's very clear from the replies of some of my knowledgeable friends that they are not very sure if 'brainwash' is the appropriate word to describe some of the unethical practices on the part of advertisers. While one has opined this has some elements of brainwash and another agrees that this method sounds more familiar in totalitarian systems hinting at its figurative association. This is evident enough that some have reservations about the use of this word in this context.

    As the dictionary meaning of this word consists of two important elements viz., sustained action and coercion. Where do you find these two in a typical advertisement agressive or otherwise? Going by our real life experience do we watch any TV ads with that much of serious interest? I have noted with great interest that some viewers are so smart that they make use of ad breaks to attend to their urgent chores in between. Leave alone our personal experiences, do we have any statistical inforamtion to support such sweeping conclusions?

    Many have raised the point of brand loyalty without going very deep into it. A brand is a product of very hard work undertaken over a period of time and it is an invisible yet such a valuable thing for the brand owner.This loyalty does not come in a flash, it takes years if not decades to build a brand and to successfully position it in the market. Why does one commit himself or herself to particular product or a particular brand? Reasons could be as many! A brand is successful not merely on the strenghth of an ad blitz but it has to rank high qualitatively too.

    So an aggressive or let me call it a 'brainwashing' ad has to pass several hurdles before it makes its existence effectively felt by leaving any impression whatsoever - our inquiry and scrutiny, governmental action and judicial intevention.

  • Re: Group Discussion Contest 19th July to 26th July 2011

    by » 8 years ago


    I completely agree with the arguments put forth by Gulshan! I couldn't have said it better!
    Chinmoy, forget about the dictionary for a while and check this link: http://www.pakalertpress.com/2011/07/06/14-propaganda-techniques-fox-news-uses-to-brainwash-americans/

    Don't several advertisers use the same techniques? That's why we say that they "brainwash" the masses with such ads. If an ad merely states that a product something that it does not, it is ONLY Unethical!!
    But, when an ad states that a product does something that it does not, and further uses "agressive marketing" to convince that this product that this product is the ultimate, that is unethical AS WELL AS an attempt to brainwash.

    Also, check out these links
    http://cafepress.worth1000.com/entries/109088/mcdonalds-mayor-mccheese-addresses-citizens-group
    http://rpr190.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/reading-5-two-ways-a-woman-can-get-hurt-jean-kilbourne/
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_advertisements_brainwash_us

    Again, I am not sure what exactly we are discussing -
    1) Whether or not advertisers ATTEMPT to brainwash OR
    2) Whether current ads are SUCCESSFUL in brainwashing the masses.

    In the case of 1) I strongly feel that this is indeed true, for reasons I have already stated before.
    As for 2), that is a yes and no situation. That can be accurately answered only with a properly designed statistical study!!
    But, even if the number of successes are small, fact is that it is a SUCCESS - whether you kill one or you kill many, you HAVE killed!!
    Just because a small number of people are affected, does not mean that we should assume they were stupid enough not to research first!
    Advertisements should be used to inform people and HELP them make choices, not JUST to aggressively (and sometimes falsely) promote products.

    And Chinmoy, as for the few "hurdles before it makes its existence effectively felt by leaving any impression whatsoever"

    [li][/li]our inquiry and scrutiny - As I have argued before, NOT ALL will be successful in spotting cons and my sympathies do lie with the naive section of society!

    [li][/li]governmental action and judicial intervention come only AFTER successful brainwashing, and the realization that one has been conned. And, though there is an increased awareness about consumers rights nowadays, there is still a complacency in the Indian masses when it comes to seeking justice, because many have lost faith in the system!!
    Thus, the erring still continue to err and keep ensnaring new people from the millions that their ads reach out to!

    BTW, Did you check out the schedule J? You will find that many ads are in contravention of the Act. Why is there no governmental action and judicial intervention there? The Act has been in place since 1940.
    Why are these people not afraid to break the law?

    http://www.triond.com/users/kimberlyds

  • Re: Group Discussion Contest 19th July to 26th July 2011

    by » 8 years ago


    Wow Kalyani - you really have us all on a roll here haven't you??!!! :laugh:

    http://www.triond.com/users/kimberlyds

  • Re: Group Discussion Contest 19th July to 26th July 2011

    by » 8 years ago


    Yes, I agree modern days advertising is a form of brain washing and the advertisers or advertising agencies use their own methods and techniques to brain wash the innocent minds of the consumers and indirectly infuse in their minds that their product is simply the best and of superior quality.

    It is worth while to mention here that there was a time when adds were given before the start of a program or during the interval but now the we find adds in between programs so that they can influence the customers to buy their products. Further, this brain washing factor is not limited only through television but tries to bind the customers in its ugly clutches even through radio Fm channels, newspaper, magazines and even hoardings on the sides of the big wide roads or narrow passages or by lanes. The bottom line is that they can do anything to influence you and make you buy their products or services. They even went to the extent of harassing you by playing or displaying the same add again and again in front of you.

    They even try to tempt you by hiring big stars and making them speak sweet soft words for their products. They even hire good looking models who with their charming and ever smiling faces will influence you and show you how happy and satisfied they are with that particular product. There are numerous examples where a simple customer got lured with these adds and end up buying these products and the end result was dissatisfaction and disappointment.

    Believe me or not these so called models or stars are trained and taught in such a way that the will create magic on your buying taste and you finally succumb your wish before them whether it is a cosmetic, ornaments or some physical products. Moreover, they even don't hesitate to use women and innocent small children in their adds so that their adds gets noticed among the masses and the sales margin of their products gets hiked.

    It is a bare truth, that we get brain washed every day, every moment and every seconds through these adds and the most effected ones are the children because sometimes even their food habits depend on the advertisements they watch. In western countries, advertisements aimed at children are censored before being shown on television, papers and magazines but I am not sure if the same holds true in our country, India.

    Finally, I would like to add that we should not led away by advertisements. We should use commonsense and discretion and see through the truth of the advertisement and the intention of the advertiser. We should not allow advertisements to change our values, ideals, views and opinions that we have formed after much thinking during the course of our lives...

  • Re: Group Discussion Contest 19th July to 26th July 2011

    by » 8 years ago


    Nicely said Ajay - I guess you summed up this entire discussion very nicely indeed! :)
    I guess this is one topic that can never come to a clearly conclusive ending

    http://www.triond.com/users/kimberlyds

    Thank you said by: ajay

  • Re: Group Discussion Contest 19th July to 26th July 2011

    by » 8 years ago


    Abid- MRTP Act has been replaced by Competition Act. The object is to curb minopolistic tendencies and unethical trade practices. This also includes unethical advertisements. The advertisers have to abide by advertising standards. However, the purpose of advertisement is to create brand loyalty among as many consumers as possible. That is why when companies launch a new product or brand, the marketing is very aggressive. More the aggressive, more the elementof 'brainwashing'.

    The term 'brainwashing' appears to many too harsh and not proper in Indian context. However, I understand that if 'brainwashing' is so irrelevant, the very topic would not have been raised. Raising of the topic by itself indicates possibility of brainwashing by advertisers. I reiterate that 'brainwashing' is not always successful to the full extent. There is a saying- You may befool some for ever, all for some time but not all for ever. The advertisers have to maintain good quality of product and compete also in terms of quality. You may 'brainwash' some consumers for all times and all consumers for some time but not all for ever, if you do not maintain excellent quality.

    G. K. Ajmani Tax consultant
    http://gkajmani-mystraythoughts.blogspot.com/


  • Re: Group Discussion Contest 19th July to 26th July 2011

    by » 8 years ago


    @Kimberly

    I am happy to be left to plough the lonely furrow. In fact I have been enjoying my splendid isolation - so to speak. Ha ha!

    Now coming to your suggestion to ignore the dictionary meaning of the word I have to regret that I can't accept. Having been trained in semantic discipline I know what could be the consequences of an inapproriate use! I have never been encouraged to take liberties with words. More so in this case as none of the participating members has so far come up with any convincing alternative meaning! Even the links you have provided do not influence me or my postion.

    You have displayed zeal of a missionary kind in going out of our way to express your sympathies for the victims of ignorance and gullibility. I neither feel they deserve my sympathies nor any such sympathy however morally lofty it may sound, has any place in the practical scheme of the comercial world. If they need anything that is empowerment through greater knowledge of the means available to fight off this menace and I am all for it.

    In your post you have not spared the judiciary either! And in doing so you have exhibited inadequate understanding how judicial processes work in this country.There are some extraordianry situations where courts take suo moto cognizance of an offence and in situations where tortious liability arises the judicial process is started at the instance of the victims- which is known as cause of action in legal parlance . Similary while complaining about lack of judicial intervention and effectiveness you have not cited any verifiable source as to the ground realities. But from mypersonal experience I can say that the number of complaints in consumer courts has gone up many times. Please visit the office of consumer redressal forum of your district to get a first hand experience.Judiciary comes into the picture mostly after the commission of an act because in no other way it can take congnizance of a wrong. Although preventive actions too form part of judicial actions and here again the complaint has to pray for it!

    Your passionate espousal of the cause against 'brainwashing brigands' has led me to think very seriously on how many times I came under the influence of these baying ads in my life so far! Not even once! I did my own empirical work by asking some of friends and they too could not exactly cite any convincing case! Here too some of my friends discuss in very unconvincing terms coming heavily under the influence of the so-called blitzkrieg against advertisement. So where do we precisely stand. Where is the research work? How many millions ads have claimed how many victims. Let us not get carried away by the heat and dust of a debate. Just imagine a world without advertisements and ask a simple questions if you would be better off without them!!!

  • Re: Group Discussion Contest 19th July to 26th July 2011

    by » 8 years ago


    Well Chinmoy, what can I say? You can take a horse to the water but you can't make it drink! ;)

    Thankfully, you yourself have noted that you alone are ploughing the lonely furrow And good for you that you are enjoying it!

    If in this forum itself there are so many who feel that advertisements do ATTEMPT to brainwash people, then you could try thinking about it objectively rather than stubbornly! If you continue ploughing rocky ground, when the time comes to harvest, you will be left astounded!!

    Maybe it is like Gulshan stated, "The term 'brainwashing' appears to many too harsh and not proper in Indian context" and I too hold the same sentiments as he does, with respect to this subject!

    Coming to the dictionary meaning of "brainwash" (since you just can't let it go)
    pressurize (someone) into adopting radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible means: which is exactly what these ads that WE are talking about are doing!! Wake up and smell the coffee!! "Pressurize" means attempt to persuade or coerce (someone) into doing something:

    Simply because these ads do not put a gun to your head and tell you to buy their product, doesn't mean it is not a form of pressurizing. They pressurize in a more effective way.

    Through out the discussion you have, unfortunately, been thinking ONLY from YOUR perspective. That's why your judgement is so clouded. That's why I asked you even before to spare a thought for the people who are unfortunately not as intelligent as you. And yes, you are also wrong about your inability to sympathise with the victims of ignorance and gullibility - It is not 'morally' lofty, It is PLAINLY lofty and arrogant! I agree that they need "empowerment through greater knowledge of the means available to fight off this menace" and that is already underway.

    Its something like this. Stealing/murder is a crime and if one gets robbed/killed, there are laws to get you justice. But, does that mean that a thief is "right" to rob/murder and that a person who got robbed/murdered was "stupid" enough to get robbed?
    Well, such justification makes almost all criminals sound more innocent than we generally make them to be.

    BTW, the links were not supposed to provide you with an alternative meaning of the word brainwash, but to show you that even outside this forum, people are irked by the so called "brainwashing" quality of SOME ads!

    I did not and would not like to go into more details of our 'wonderful' judicial system, because that is outside the scope of this discussion. Maybe Kalyani can think of using it for the next GD!!! :laugh:

    And finally Chinmoy, do read our comments carefully and try and understand what we are REALLY trying to say, rather than misunderstanding and subsequently misquoting us! Nobody has suggested that there should be NO advertisements, just that they should not be misleading!! After all, not all of us are as smart as you and your Intelligent group of friends.

    Anyway, you are entitled to continue to be in denial and live in a fantasy if you do not wish to see the light. That decision is only yours to make.

    http://www.triond.com/users/kimberlyds

  • Re: Group Discussion Contest 19th July to 26th July 2011

    by » 8 years ago


    Kimberty D Souza- Although Chinmoy does not totally agree with the view that advertisers attempt to brainwash, I do not think he is adamant. I had difference of opinion with him in many group discussions in the past. He advances his arguments logically. He rightly says that a word should be understood according to dictionary meaning. If we go by arbitrary meanings of words, there will be confusion. That is why, I have also given a link that defines 'Brainwashing' elaborately according to wikipedia. Chinmoy's contention is that there is no element of coercion in the advertisements and hence this is not brainwashing. I think that 'coercion' is one of the elements in the definition but this is not essential to definition. Coercion may be a technique to brainwash but there may be other ways also to brainwash. Let me also give dictionary meaning of the term. according to Compact Reference Oxford dictionary, the term 'brainwash' means- cause (someone) to change completely their attitudes and beliefs using repetition or mental pressure' Thus either repetition or mental pressure or both may constitute 'brainwash'. Undoubtedly, the advertisements are repeated quickly and storm the brain of consumers and force him to change his mind. Hence, the term 'brainwash' is appropriate.

    G. K. Ajmani Tax consultant
    http://gkajmani-mystraythoughts.blogspot.com/


  • Re: Group Discussion Contest 19th July to 26th July 2011

    by » 8 years ago


    Sorry mates! I think this discussion has reached a point where I no longer consider it desirable to carry my views forward.

    Thanks a lot to all of you who have been patient enough to go through my contrarian posts! Thank you all once again!

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