usha manohar wrote:

Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:

Reading all the arguments here, I must say I am quite astonished at some of the esteemed members' stand that the a certain minority community is justifyingly a minority etc. etc. I am not very much aware of the statistics that have been given but I much prefer to refer to the realtime issues that I have actually seen among this community. Accept it or not, hard and glaring fact is that, these people simply DO NOT adhere to the rules and regulations that are followed by others in society. They flout the population concerns and give rise to children one after another, each couple having at least 5-6 children even today, in big cities, not just rural villages. They cannot provide for adequate medical care of the women and children, let alone provide proper nutrition but still do not follow family planning, simply because their religion does not allow them to use family planning safeguards. Once they were truly minority, now they are no longer a minority\, so why keep calling them and grant them special benefits when it is glaringly clear that they do not want to follow general society norms?

I also request other members to please do not post more statistics advising me to interpret them correctly. I am an alert and awake citizen and am very much aware of what is happening in the country!!

 

Just to add on a few more points to what Kalyani has already explained well...Popultaion explosion in the particular minority community is at a lower starta where people do not care for anything except what the religious leader tells them. In my own town I know several people like my own fisherman who is barely 50 years old and has two wives 11 children and 18 grand children already. When I asked him how he could manage to take care of such a large family he simply says we have to accept what the lord gives and our leader says we shd never go in for family planning...This class is the most dangerous because they can be easily manipulated and used against the society. The government shd bring uniform civil code and also make primary education compulsory to make the community more aware otherwise it will be impossible to expect any positive changes..

Eleven is fine, in our area 14-18 is normal count of children in each household. Most women of a particular community are almost always pregnant in their conceivable age . 

The burgeoning population is a phenomenon which needs a more scientific explanation than attempts at whipping up crude emotions on this issue. Let us not go aboard with claims that only members of a particular community are guilty of fathering dozens. You need not be a social scientist to see the apparent logical linkage between backwardness and the propensity to proliferate. And the question of rising numbers has to be address how the political parties of all hues have been treating the poor and disadvantaged Muslim people as vote banks in their ghetto politics. The Left in West Bengal systematically and actively aided infiltration across the border which has alarmingly altered the demographic character of border districts of the state. Now Mamata is giving stipends to imams.This is the kind of politics they are playing with them. I am sick to my stomach!

The burgeoning population is a phenomenon which needs a more scientific explanation than attempts at whipping up crude emotions on this issue. Let us not go aboard with claims that only members of a particular community are guilty of fathering dozens. You need not be a social scientist to see the apparent logical linkage between backwardness and the propensity to proliferate. And the question of rising numbers has to be address how the political parties of all hues have been treating the poor and disadvantaged Muslim people as vote banks in their ghetto politics. The Left in West Bengal systematically and actively aided infiltration across the border which has alarmingly altered the demographic character of border districts of the state. Now Mamata is giving stipends to imams.This is the kind of politics they are playing with them. I am sick to my stomach!

I agree with your views, Chinmoy! This problem of indiscriminate proliferation is not restricted only to one community, which of course, does so on religious basis purely and is not limited to just the educationally or economically backward classes. I have friends among the community, of my age or close to it thereabouts, and most of them have between 4-54 children. So the problem in that community is certainly not ignorance. Similar issue in other economically backward strata is purely financial reasons, the logic behind it being that higher the number of members in family, the more the number of hands to contribute to the income. This is true especially among the people who labour on daily wages. Among those, problem can be addressed with proper education and livelihood opportunities. As far as the other community is concerned, their imams and maulavis literally brainwash their flocks into giving birth to more and more children, all in a bid to far outnumber Hindus in number. This is not my imagination or careless comment, as some members would try to believe, but I have heard this fact for myself in a place called Nevasa, Ahmednagar district in Maharashtra. These things are openly spoken, practiced and followed, but should a Hindu speak against it, then it is a public outrage against them!

@Kalyani

Denial of basics in life does drive people to court extremism of all kinds. If any person despite receiving education - the only means of enlightening oneself - can't free himself or herself from the fundamentalism or radicalism then it can be safely said that it is an imperfect education. Talking about Muslim fundamentalism it is a clear as broad daylight that the entire world is threatened and unsurely grappling with it - groping in the dark in framing appropriate responses to combat it but that should not provoke revivalism in other religions. It has been cruelly tragic that since Independence our leaders have mortgaged their souls to rank rabid and communal elements of Muslim society under the most dangerous conviction that these maulanas, imams have enough sway on their community to herd their followers to polling-booths and casting their votes for candidates dictated by them. This is perversity at its worst. Indira Gandhi could take on even Nixon but not these regressive elements. The truth is that our dishonesty,deceit,spinelessness have thwarted all efforts to evolve a secular culture.We have not strengthened the hands of forces of liberal Islam.Centuries back Moghul emperor thought of religious syncretism by his Din-e-elahi experiment.Dara Sikoh could become a Sanskrit scholar. He translated Upanishad into Persian language. Today Imam of Jama Maszid commands greater respect than the icons I have mentioned in the eyes of our leaders. What a tragedy,my countrymen !!!

Globally, minorities are at receiving end in all countries, even in USA which relatively is better than other countries. Somehow the majority community always gives itself the right to tell the minorities how they should live their lives.For example in India they cannot have a birth rate higher than majority community or government benefits should be distributed in exact proportion to their share of population. In some other country they cannot practice their religion or are denied many benefits. It is un understandable why majority community always finds itself threatened by minorities. In India if instead of minority bashing the majority community looked inwards and rectified the ills within itself that would be a great achievement and service to humanity. I have always found whenever i have taken up issues affecting our own religion they are always avoided by forum members, but otherwise they are full of advice to minorities. It is time that perceptions are not used to make decisions and form opinions and fall prey to scheming politicians. If one party sought minority votes the other is seeking majority votes - what is the difference? Isn't the party in power today compromising on Art. 370 for sake of power? Why a member opposed the submission of government authenticated data is not clear.Facts are important in arriving at right decisions. The flaks can start flowing in.

@Mr Vijay

The majesty of 'Principle of Majority' is a concept which forms the very bedrock of any institution of a democratic dispensation - be it judiciary, legislature or other domain. Otherwise we would be making open invitations to dictators to take over. The point of essence is the composition and character of the majority and more the underlying motives of the ruling majority. In India threre has been a very effective system of 'Checks and Balances' which has worked reasonably. It is true that ever since the Modi Government came the lunatic fringe of the Saffron Brigade have launched with full vigor to derail his development agenda making his developmental posturing somewhat hollow. Even with all those hoopla surrounding Prez Obama and the attendant bonhomie he has very curtly reminded PM Modi in his parting shot that social stability and cohesiveness is a sine qua non for any developmental exercise. It is pertinent here that the mandate this government received was on the back of long spells of malgovernance in the form of corruption ,policy paralysis, dynastic politics and nepotism. The BJP exploited that to the hilt and came to power and that too securing 31% of the votes cast. Therefore, it would be a self-delusion on the part of its leadership to go beyond the mandate of good governance and it sticks out a mile that vandalising church is a disgrace and raises a serious question on its intention. The only redeeming aspect is that our judiciary has been very vigialant and any attempt to subvert constitutional and legitimate rights would be effectively dealt with.

I agree with Chinmoy and others that majority is basis of democracy.  Majority is of different kinds.  Majority based on thought/ opinion is fluctuating and represents public opinion. Nothing wrong with this. Majority view is that holds authority in democracy. But then there is majority or minority based on sectional and community interests. This sort of majority or minority is of permanent nature. The so called conversions and ghar vapasi are intended to disturb the existing conditions based on religious community. In this context also, majority matters more. After all, in system of universal adult franchise, majority rules- be this based on opinion, thought or sheer numbers of a community.

Here is the issue of minority rights. Majority cannot oppress minority. This is also in company law. So far as majority rule is in interest of all citizens, all is well. Oppression of minority community by majority in any manner is negation of democracy. Not only majority rule but also equality before law, protection of citizenship rights of all irrespective of community, caste and gender are bedrock of any democracy, any civil society. It is in this context that secularism and socialism gain significance.      

Gulshan Kumar Ajmani wrote:

I agree with Chinmoy and others that majority is basis of democracy.  Majority is of different kinds.  Majority based on thought/ opinion is fluctuating and represents public opinion. Nothing wrong with this. Majority view is that holds authority in democracy. But then there is majority or minority based on sectional and community interests. This sort of majority or minority is of permanent nature. The so called conversions and ghar vapasi are intended to disturb the existing conditions based on religious community. In this context also, majority matters more. After all, in system of universal adult franchise, majority rules- be this based on opinion, thought or sheer numbers of a community.

Here is the issue of minority rights. Majority cannot oppress minority. This is also in company law. So far as majority rule is in interest of all citizens, all is well. Oppression of minority community by majority in any manner is negation of democracy. Not only majority rule but also equality before law, protection of citizenship rights of all irrespective of community, caste and gender are bedrock of any democracy, any civil society. It is in this context that secularism and socialism gain significance.  

 

A very simple question sir, does this minority right apply in India only or any other countries in our neighborhood have any care for this. Leave apart countries but in our own country where Hindus are minority groups what do you suggest for their welfare. Why is all the emphasis on one particular community that otherwise is the majority all over the world and clearly breaking all the rules of humanity.